Josh Martin
Ted O’Brien, the Deputy Liberal Leader and Shadow Treasurer, is tackling the issue. The 51 year old is the member for Fairfax on the Sunshine Coast, and hails from a successful Queensland business family who founded and ran the Defiance flour mills. The youngest of nine children, an underdog now in his biggest fight yet, trying to rebuild his party from May’s election Wipeout and up against treasurer Jim Chalmers, who political pundits say is one of the most talented politicians of his generation. Ted O’Brien, welcome to the Issue.
Ted O’Brien
Thanks.
Josh Martin
You’re the youngest of nine kids. What was that like?
Ted O’Brien
Well, mate, youngest of nine kids. Yes, I can’t take any credit for it, though. That was all mum and dad. Mate, I don’t know you, sort of people often ask that when you’re from a really big clan, but you don’t know any different, right? Like whatever family you grow up in, that’s sort of what you know. In hindsight, though, looking back, it was fantastic. It was just always active, you know, two girls and then seven boys, and being the runt of the litter, it was a lot of fun. I got toughened up probably at a younger age than most, due to having so many brothers. And although dad’s no longer with us, we’re still a really close knit family, actually.
Josh Martin
And I imagine it gave you some skills that you’ve brought into politics, negotiation, learning how to deal with conflict.
Ted O’Brien
Probably, and certainly, yeah, as a little one, I you had to, almost at times, physically get on the kitchen table and start yelling to get attention to get what you wanted. And so whether or not that led to politics, I don’t know, but I think politics is all about people. It’s about serving people, but it’s also about dealing with people in Parliament, and at least for me, growing up where you’re just completely surrounded every second of the day by other people, I think that probably did help. I think we’re all sort of products of our background, and there’s nothing more important to me than family, and I’m sure growing up the youngest of nine has probably influenced a fair bit of my path and what I’ve been doing and how I conduct myself.
Josh Martin
And the family had a pretty successful business. What was that like? And did that push you to getting into business and now as the Shadow Treasurer?
Ted O’Brien
So I am, fourth generation of a family which started a flour milling business, which then went into bakeries and so forth. So it was a pretty big business at the time, one of the largest in Australia in flour milling. So I grew up and, you know, I would stand on a chair to reach the bench in bakeries to learn how to mold bread. So I sort of had that background, really, as a trainee baker growing up, or every school holiday, which took me to Asia immediately after school, working for the family business, sort of a market entry job, sort of going into different markets, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc, to sell a Australian flour into bakeries, and so that was, that was the start. And for me, my entire family really is a business family. I’m the only one who ever went into politics, and so I just probably had a bit of a different calling, if you like, politically. But my background is entirely business.
Josh Martin
And you’ve got pretty good skills in Mandarin language skills, the business skills in Asia. That must be quite helpful.
Ted O’Brien
Well, it is helpful, mate, but nowadays I get really nervous that people think I’m fluent in Mandarin. So can I tell you I’m not. I certainly used to do business in Mandarin. My personal relationships way back when I was in my early 20s, entirely in Mandarin, living and working up in the market, initially Taiwan, and then later China. But now, unfortunately, I barely use it, and so where I can I have a go. But I have to say, it’s not with great fluency, but it’s also a humbling thing, right? Because I just think where I grew up and how I grew up, not many people could speak a second language unless you were an immigrant from somewhere else, and you could, and I was no good at languages. At school, I learned French. I was pretty hopeless, to be honest with you, but I found myself going to Taiwan when I was, I think I was 20 to live, to work, and I studied there, but I worked in environments in southern Taiwan, in particular where there really wasn’t any English. So I was in the deep end. And there were times then I would catch myself just thinking, this is just such a humbling experience to converse with someone who you otherwise could never converse with unless you spoke their language. And for me, that probably sounds like a, you know, a minor thing, but that’s pretty powerful for me, just because you could form relationships, you could do business, but I was able to meet and have relationships with people who otherwise I could never have done so unless I took the time it was thrown in the deep end to learn to learn Mandarin.
Josh Martin
Underlying inflation now sits at 3% for the September quarter. This was largely due to a 23.6% increase in electricity costs after government energy bill rebates in Queensland, Western Australia and Tasmania ended, and inflation could shoot even higher when federal rebates end after Christmas. Ted now, looking at the economy and your current job, inflation shooting back up. Are you concerned for the Australian people?
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, I am, because inflation has now surged, and it’s the highest level in two years. We have the Reserve Bank meeting next week, and this is dash any hope of an interest rate cut. So if you think of the average mortgage holder in Australia, they now pay $1,800 extra every single month on interest payments, $1,800 extra every month since the Albanese government came to office, and they’re not going to have that relief they were hoping for next week. And so I’m really concerned about it. If you listen to a lot of the economists, a lot of the banks, they are suggesting the earliest possible time might be, February next year. There’s even some suggesting the next movement might be an interest rate rise, not a cut. So you know, the Australian people, as we all know, are struggling. We have had this cost of living crisis under Labor. And unfortunately, if a government spends too much, which this government is, it’s the highest spending government in 40 years outside of recession. I mean, it’s huge, right? It’s just extraordinary. Government spending is running four times faster than the economy now. What this means is it basically is putting upward pressure on prices. And when prices go up and inflation goes up, especially when it breaches the band of two to 3% for the Reserve Bank, well, it gives no wriggle room for the RBA to then cut rates for mortgage holders. So it is deeply concerning, but I think the number one job of government has to be to stop the spending spree as a result.
Josh Martin
The government’s been spending on energy rebates as now talk about whether they extend them beyond this final quarter of 2025. What’s your view on that?
Ted O’Brien
Well, you can see the impact of electricity prices. It’s the number one issue that comes up when I’m talking to businesses, both small and large. Australian households know it. They’re being smashed. Prices have risen by nearly 40% since the Albanese government came into office, the CPI figures that have just been released, say in the September quarter alone, electricity prices jumped by 9% now it is true that people say, well, gee, that jump in 9% has to do with the rebates coming off. But even if you if you accounted for that, the jump in electricity prices was 5% and this goes to the key point, which is the main priority of government is to focus on the cause of the problem, not just keep spending on the symptom. It is a train wreck the government’s energy policy that’s being borne out right across the country now, people are feeling it in the prices they pay. Those who understand the electricity system know that it’s broken and it’s only getting worse. We of course, support relief for households because they need it, but when it comes to the fundamental role of this government, it is to change its energy policy dramatically. It has proven to be not successful. Australians are now paying among the highest electricity prices in the world, and this government wants to double down on the policy. This is my key concern.
Josh Martin
If you were Treasurer, would you extend the rebates or leave them?
Ted O’Brien
Well, if I was Treasurer, I’ll be working with a sensible coalition government on fixing the energy policy period. That’s number one goal as for relief. Of course, we will do everything we can to make life easier for Australians, but this government is only focused on spending money and dealing with symptoms as a country. Yes, we have to deal with problems before us today and families who are hurting today. But government also needs to be longer term in its thinking. We need to be looking well ahead. We need to have a vision for the country to say, well, this is the Australia we want in generations to come. How do we get there? And a positive vision for Australia is one where we are prosperous, we are strong and fiercely independent. If we botch our energy system, that vision is impossible to achieve, and this is why it’s incumbent on this government, which is in power, to correct its energy system.
Josh Martin
But should Chalmers say, yep, we’ve done and weaned people off the rebates?
Ted O’Brien
Well, that’s what he has said. So currently, the government’s plan is to stop the rebates in the belief that they have a fix for the energy system. I don’t believe they have a fix for the energy system. So pressure will, I’m sure, mount on the government to either extend rebates or fix the energy system. So let’s wait and see, and I’ll hold my view until I hear what the government wants to come out with.
Josh Martin
Coalition members have been meeting to thrash out its energy policy. Seven News understands the opposition will oppose Labor’s 2035 emissions reduction targets and support a policy to lift the ban on nuclear energy, but is unlikely to suggest these reactors will be taxpayer funded, an issue Anthony Albanese previously seized on. And how would the fix of the system work?
Ted O’Brien
Well, first and foremost, it takes an attitudinal shift. One from the government now is very ideological about energy, to one that is really based on on economics and engineering. The government has set climate targets like the 2035 target it came out with recently, which are completely unrealistic, and to this day, they are refusing to tell the Australian people how much it will cost, which means either they haven’t costed the impact of their plan, or they costed it, but they don’t want to reveal it. Now that that is going to be key, you need that shift in approach, which means, when it comes to the technology, for example, Labor is just hell bent on having predominantly one type of technology. You know, 96 to 98% of the electricity grid, they want to be renewables. Instead of being singularly focused like that, they should be open minded, and that’s what our approach is, to have a balanced mix of technologies, not to get hung up on one. You know, this is difficult stuff, and every country around the world is grappling with it, but the countries that are doing well with keeping energy costs down are those that have balanced energy mixes. They have everything on the table and all of the above approach. They do the economic planning and the engineering, and they’re led by that. They’re not led by ideology, which is a problem with Labor.
Josh Martin
With nuclear Ted, you were a big proponent of it last term. Should the government, or will the opposition continue with the nuclear policy? Is that what you’re hoping for?
Ted O’Brien
Well, if I go back to what I was saying before, if you want to get energy right, you need a balanced energy mix. Everything has to be on the table. Then you look around the world and you say, well, those countries which are successfully decarbonizing, but most importantly keeping prices down with reliable energy, they’ve got nuclear in their mix. And so my views on nuclear energy have not changed. Yeah, but again, it’s not a view like, yay nuclear. It’s basically, how do we get prices down, keep the lights on as we decarbonize? And it’s been proven around the world that nuclear is key to that, maybe even today, there’s news out about a $121 billion deal, Australian dollars in the United States, with Westinghouse to roll out another 10 reactors, starting 2030. We have over probably 32, 33 economies now with nuclear energy, we have up to 60 countries, an additional 60 countries which are looking at introducing nuclear energy for the very first time. There’s a reason they’re doing it. It is an important part of a balanced energy mix. So what do we need here in Australia? Number one, we need more gas, a lot more of it. We shouldn’t be closing our coal plants prematurely. We need to continue rolling out renewables in a sensible fashion, and as coal eventually leaves the system, we should be looking at nuclear energy. My view on that hasn’t changed.
Josh Martin
Was it a mistake under the last term with Peter Dutton to say that all the nuclear reactors would be publicly funded?
Ted O’Brien
Oh, look, I think we are learning some lessons from our last policy. There are going to be some changes. One of the areas of feedback we have had is concern about our plan being public ownership of those assets. We’re listening to those concerns, but I won’t pre-empt the final conclusion, which will come out with, in due course.
Josh Martin
Small reactors or large ones, or a bit of both?
Ted O’Brien
Ultimately, our approach last term is you’ve got to make sure there are parameters, and those parameters have got to be around the generation of nuclear. That is, none of us want the old stuff. I mean, I wouldn’t touch sort of Soviet, Soviet era nuclear power plants with a barge pole, right? We should only be interested in the new and emerging technologies, because they are proven to be unbelievably safe and effective, and they come in different shapes and sizes, right? The way the Australian grid is made up, you don’t need the enormous plants that you know, you see in the UK and some of the US, but there you could either have, you know, large plants, or you can have small modular reactors. You know, the micro reactor emergency is pretty interesting too, but they’re very small. They wouldn’t solve for the Australian grid. So I don’t think politicians should be determining specific types of plants. I mean, it’s just silly. We’re not we don’t have that experience, but we need to put some parameters, and those parameters should be on ensuring it is only new and emerging technologies, which is basically generation three and above.
Josh Martin
Do you support Jane Hume’s bill to lift the moratorium on nuclear?
Ted O’Brien
Well, look, I mean, Jane’s bill won’t come to the house, so it’s not like going to be a division in the house for us, right? But what she has put forward is consistent with the coalition’s view. You know, there’s more that we need to do on our energy policy, and that work is well underway, but the notion of lifting the moratorium is absolutely consistent, because you can’t, you can’t have nuclear energy plants without lifting the moratorium. And so I think what Jane has put forward is completely consistent with the coalition’s view.
Josh Martin
How do you get around the scare campaign labor ran last time?
Ted O’Brien
Well, look, there’s no doubt Labor, I won’t say to its credit, because its campaign was disingenuous and dishonest, but they ran a scare campaign. They really did. Interestingly, though that they didn’t try to run a scare campaign on safety, because they know nuclear is safe. They didn’t run a scare campaign on the locations we’re looking at because the regional communities there wanted them. They didn’t run a scare campaign the type of technology, because that type of technology is similar to the ones going into our AUKUS submarines. So instead they made up a lie. If I’ve got a regret for the last campaign, we didn’t call Labor out more effectively and sooner on their lie. So they lied, saying that our plan was going to cost $600 billion a complete and utter lie. Our plan had been fully costed. We released it. It’s going to cost around about $120 billion, they knew that our release of the economics behind nuclear and our entire energy plan was more detailed and thorough than the government itself. Despite we don’t have those resources, we completely released that. They could not shoot one hole in the economics of our energy plan. So what did they do? They made up a lie. They effectively told the Australian people a lie, and that helped them win an election. But it’s not the first time. The election before that, they deliberately told the Australian people a lie. They told the Australian people there’ll be a $275 reduction in household power bills, a lie. That’s never happened. Power bills have gone up well over $1,000. They promised it’s going to go down $275. So they won one election based on an energy lie, and then they even legislated that lie. And the second election, they took yet another lie to the Australian people. For me, that is the biggest take out that politically we are up against a sales and marketing machine which has absolutely no hesitation in lying to the Australian people in order to win government, they lied, and we need to be harder and faster in calling out Labor when they lie to the Australian people.
Josh Martin
The coalition will take a policy of spending cuts to the next election. The burning question is, where will it trim? The longer it leaves this unanswered, the more likely Labor is to launch an attack that it will cut services like Medicare. Ted on to government spending, which areas of government spending would you cut?
Ted O’Brien
Well, look, you’re right to ask the question, because this is the highest spending government in 40 years, outside of recession, as I said earlier, and it is completely out of control. You might remember Peter Costello. So Costello introduced the charter of budget honesty, right? And under that, every Treasurer is meant to have a set of rules to contain his or her spending. Jim Chalmers is the first Treasurer not to have any rules. And this is the problem. He has had no rules to contain government spending, which is why it’s been going out of control. Therefore the first thing that the government should be doing, and therefore what we would do if we were in government, is to introduce fiscal rules to contain the spending. Secondly, we’ll be looking at more efficiency in government spending. And then thirdly, which probably goes to the punch of your question is getting rid of government waste. The example that I’ve given before is their EV fringe benefits tax carve outs. I mean, this stuff’s ridiculous, right? So let’s say you want to buy a Tesla Model Y to just sort of go to your mobile phone and do it in and you say, you know what, I’m going to take out a lease. So you put in, you want to take out a lease, it will ask you how much money you make, what’s your income? So if you’re a nurse, you put in $90,000 and you’ll see how much it’s going to cost you to lease that vehicle. Then let’s say you’re a lawyer. On $200,000 put in $200,000 the lawyer gets a cheaper car to lease than the nurse, even though the lawyer makes some far more money, over double the money. Why would that be? This is Labor’s current policy. It is bizarre, right? So up to 50% of the cost the taxpayer pays for the more money you make, the more the taxpayer subsidizes your leasing of electric vehicles. The cost of this program has blown out tenfold. It is the one of the least economically efficient ways to reduce emissions, but this government is hell bent on continuing it. It is inequitable. It penalizes people who can’t afford any EV because they’ve still got to pay their taxes to subsidize those who do, those who do have the money to buy an EV. It helps out those who are poorer and rewards those who are richer. That’s Labor policy. Well, that’s a typical example of something that that should be on the chopping block.
Josh Martin
Does the Coalition still believe the public service needs some of the fat cut out of it?
Ted O’Brien
Well, look, I think, how that was managed during the campaign. We’ve learned some serious lessons from there’s no doubt there is absolutely room for efficiency, and that should always be a priority of any government and so, as it would be with a future Coalition government, we should be looking at efficiency right throughout government. But that’s a very different thing from talking about any sort of mass cuts.
Josh Martin
And is that, yeah, efficiency in the growth of the public service versus cutting?
Ted O’Brien
All of that is under review at the moment, so I won’t preempt where we’re going to finally land, other than to say our focus has got to be on value for money for taxpayers, the public service do a wonderful job. If you look at some of the recent activity in the United States about which I’m happy in terms of the deal being done around critical minerals and an enormous amount of work by public servants that go in behind that. I’ve had the privilege in this job to meet some very smart, hard working public servants. They do a terrific job. That doesn’t mean, though, that there isn’t more efficiency that can be driven into the public service, and that’s around processes, around technologies, around doing things, just like any business does. You know, government shouldn’t be looked at as this sacred cow that efficiencies shouldn’t be demanded of just as any small business looks for efficiencies, so too, the government should be looking for efficiencies. I think that’s fair.
Josh Martin
Is the government and the public service and even the private sector using artificial intelligence enough in Australia?
Ted O’Brien
No, I think there’s a lot more to do in that regard. I mean, AI is here. It’s already having a massive effect. I think we are only seeing the beginning of it, and so there will need to be a greater take up in a sensible, safe way. But on I am pro technology, we need to ensure that we own it. We own the impact, as opposed to sitting by passively and allowing it to be done to us-
Josh Martin
Australian made AI?
Ted O’Brien
Not necessarily we’ll talk further again, and don’t want to preempt where we’re going to be going with their own policy, other than to say that I think this government has been completely on the back foot with this. It’s been talking about it for three years now and has done absolutely nothing on it, which has only led to industry saying, So what’s the plan? Australia has so much going for it when it comes to the potential of big data, AI cloud, the entire digital economy, whether that be our geographical placement within Southeast Asia, the amount of land we have, the fact that we are so sophisticated as a people, well educated, we are a safe haven, really, in terms of our level of institutional architecture is second to none. I tell you the biggest problem we’ve got when it comes to AI, data centers, cloud energy goes back to that same conversation. It is the Achilles heel to the Australian economy. It’s the way Labor is running energy in order for us to make the most of the next generation of tech ideas like AI, it’s going to require an insatiable amount of energy. They are so thirsty for energy. But right now, this government is closing down our energy system before it has another one ready to go, and it’s barely surviving on the current demand, as for the additional demand coming on top, this government will never be able to make it work, and that is because that Achilles heel will not be fixed by them. They are ideologically trapped. They refuse to consider a true adoption of gas. They are prematurely closing down base load power stations when they don’t have a replacement ready to go. They are refusing to contemplate nuclear energy, which, again, is a solution looked at around the world to keep those data centers up and running. So Labor will never be able to make the most of artificial intelligence because they are ideologically trapped when it comes to energy, which is a prerequisite for its success.
Josh Martin
You’ve said a lot of policies are under review. One policy Sussan Ley has indicated is tax cuts. Who will get those tax cuts? How big would they be? And is that another lesson learned from the 2025 election?
Ted O’Brien
On the latter point. Yes, it is a lesson learned. You know, the Coalition has traditionally and must maintain its standing as the only party of government which will deliver lower, simpler, fairer taxes. And Sussan has been very upfront about the Coalition’s focus. We need to ensure that we can provide personal income tax relief to Australians. I mean, if you look at Jim Chalmers budget right now, he is planning a, what is it 10, almost 11 years now, of deficits before he gets the budget back to balance. And so you see that the revenue for government coming in, and then it just goes like that. It’s like a steep incline. So you can get back to balance. You know, what accounts for that entire incline? Personal income tax rises. So the government’s current plan is to tax Australians more personal income taxes. That’s what they’re coming after. It’s in black and white. And that is why Sussan very rightly said that has to be a priority, and will be a priority for a future coalition government.
Josh Martin
And getting rid of brackets or tweaking the brackets or lowering the rates of the brackets, is that all things you’re looking at?
Ted O’Brien
All of the above to be honest. I mean, you’ve got to look at all possibilities. I mean, one of the challenges, of course, remains, though this government continues to overspend, and you’ve got to wait to see what you are left with before an election, because these guys don’t muck around. They continue to spend, and the more they spend, there’s less you can do to there’s less money there to do things with. So a lot of the policy detail will come at a later date, because you’ve got to wait to see what mess Jim Chalmers leaves us.
Josh Martin
Conservative Andrew Hastie quit Sussan Ley’s frontbench because he wanted to speak out on immigration. Many in Canberra believe he or Angus Taylor could mount a leadership challenge before the next election. How are you and Sussan going? We’ve seen Jacinta Price and Andrew Hastie leave the Shadow Cabinet. Has that been a bit of a toll on her and yourself?
Ted O’Brien
Oh, look, I’m sad to see you know any colleague leave the frontbench, and both Jacinta and Andrew are fantastic people, great performers, and will continue to play a really important role, and that’ll be the case well into the future. You know, politics isn’t easy right, and so people have to make a choice as to how best they can make a contribution. I suppose I’m a little bit more relaxed than a lot of people are, because it’s sort of one of the great things about the Liberal Party. There’s not a chance in the world you would ever see in the Labor Party individual MPs stand up and say, You know what? This is, what this is what I really believe in. They just don’t do that. They’ll be kicked out of the party, for crying out loud. So I accept the fact that it can look noisy and sometimes messy, but in truth on I’m proud that this is the Liberal Party that people have the right to take a stand on something, to speak openly about it, because that’s what gets us good policy. And so, you know, yes, there’s movement here or there, and there always will be. My view is there always should be. Is it always easy? No, but you know, if you’re here to serve the Australian people and do the right thing. It’s not meant to be easy. It’s meant to be a battle of ideas, and the Liberal Party fosters that culturally. It’s deep in our DNA. We believe in battling the ideas, and that’s how you make good policy, and then you take it into the Coliseum of the Parliament, and you do it there, right? You never see that from our political opponents. It’s all behind closed doors. It’s, you know, central command and control, which is why I think they get policy wrong. And when they get policy wrong, they can’t fix it. They just, they’re frozen, because they just don’t have that freedom, which is a part of the Liberal Party. So, yeah, look, I’m, I’m pretty relaxed about it, to be honest.
Josh Martin
You’re not worried Andrew Hastie will challenge before the next election then?
Ted O’Brien
Andrew’s made that clear himself too, right? Again, it’s and I understand, you know, from a media point of view, it’s all sort of interesting stuff, and everyone loves the human stories. But it’s really clear that there’s some key areas of debate right now which are solid policy debates. It hasn’t been a personal thing. I haven’t seen it as a personal thing. It’s been a substantive debate on policy, and we’re sorting those policies out. So that’s where we are, to be honest, after being clobbered at the elections, that’s where we should be. But you know, the time for sort of lamenting, and you know, oh, whoa, we lost the election. I mean, that’s over. We’re just we’ve got to get on with it, and that’s our focus. And this week, we’re focusing on, you know, the biggest surge in inflation in two years, the impact on Australian households, and that’s what we’re prosecuting on the ground.
Josh Martin
Final question, can Sussan Ley win 2028.
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And to be honest, mate, we have to, like, we’ve got to win this thing for the Australian people. And there’s a lot of talk about, you know, the Liberal Party and us, the real talk has got to be about Australia. Australians are becoming poorer by the day, and the only way that can change is if the Coalition returns to government. And that’s our entire focus.
Josh Martin
Thanks very much, Ted.
Ted O’Brien
Appreciate it.
Josh Martin
This has been the Issue from Seven News. You can listen to us as a podcast, watch on YouTube or catch some of the sharpest comments on Seven News.
ENDS