TRANSCRIPT
10 June 2024
Topics: Paris Climate Accord, Zero-emissions nuclear technology
Patricia Karvelas
Changing the topic now to another huge issue. The climate wars are looking well and truly alive with the opposition throwing Australia’s 2030 climate targets into limbo. A key promise of the Paris Agreement is the 23 target, which the opposition says the government won’t hit and won’t yet say whether it’ll announce its own target as it works on its pitch to the Australian public for nuclear energy to be part of our mix. Ted O’Brien is the Shadow Minister for Energy and Climate Change and our guest this morning. Welcome to the program.
Ted O’Brien
Thank you very much PK. Great to be with you.
Patricia Karvelas
Can you stay in the Paris agreement if you abandon a 2030 target?
Ted O’Brien
PK, the coalition is absolutely committed to the Paris Agreement. And we’re also committed to net zero. I think on your introductory remark about climate wars, I think the thing that’s really changed is no longer is the debate about why take action on climate change, but rather, how best do we reach net zero? And our pathway is going to be vastly different from Labor’s pathway, and we’re proud of that. Because we know now that Labor’s pathway is not working, which is why Peter Dutton made it very clear, and we’ve been consistent about this for some time now, that Labor will not reach its 43% target by 2030. And we’ve got to be honest about that. We’ve gonna be very clear, and I think Labor should be too.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay, so the Paris Agreement requires us to have a 2030 target. There is no Paris Agreement without committing to that. So you say you want to stay in Paris. Does that mean you’ll have a 2030 and 2035 target?
Ted O’Brien
PK, there’s no doubt targets are important, but they have to be well informed, and they have to be achievable. If you look at what Labor did, and I went to COP last year, the end of last year in December. My counterpart Chris Bowen was there too. The Climate Change Authority has made it very clear. Australia has to reduce emissions at a rate of 17 million tonnes a year – 17 million- to achieve Labor’s target. The Australian Government went to COP last year recording an increase in emissions of 4 million tonnes. So they missed the target just last year by 20 million tons. We know that at the center of their policy lies a plan for 82% renewables on the grid by 2030. There’s nobody in the industry who believes that is anywhere near possible because they are running, at best, at halfpace.
Patricia Karvelas
Yeah, I understand that…
Ted O’Brien
So it’s just – it’s just not achievable.
Patricia Karvelas
I understand your point about their target, but I’m just trying to work out if you – if your commitment to staying in Paris means that you acknowledge that you do have to have those targets.
Ted O’Brien
One, we are committed to Paris. Two, we are absolutely committed to net zero. Three, we do understand the importance of targets, yes, PK.
Patricia Karvelas
Yeah. Because it needs clarity because there’s been confusion over the weekend about whether you’ll have interim targets. You’re saying you will?
Ted O’Brien
This is where – I think this is where Labor just plays its usual game, right? I mean, Chris Bowen was out there suggesting, you know, Paris is going to be ripped up and so forth. We’re doing what we should do, I believe, which is we’re holding the government to account. They went to the Australian people and they went to the international community, committing to a target they had not modeled, still to this day. After two years, Labor cannot tell us how their going to reach their target, how much it’s gonna cost, or who is going to pay. Meanwhile it’s a train wreck in their energy policy.
Patricia Karvelas
So just – in terms of your policy. You’re telling me that interim targets are absolutely part of the Paris Agreement and you will announce yours?
Ted O’Brien
We will have more to say about our own energy policy in due course. But I can say today though, PK, is unlike Labor we won’t be plucking targets out of thin air and we won’t be basing our targets on false promises. That’s what Labor’s done. They’re now mugged by reality. No one believes they’re going to achieve it. And I’m glad that Peter Dutton really shed light on this on Saturday morning saying…
Patricia Karvelas
Did he shed light on it though? There’s still confusion about your commitment to Paris. Is that – has that been helpful?
Ted O’Brien
There’s no confusion from our end, PK. I do know I saw Chris Bowen out there immediately with his usual shrill, sort of hyperbole, saying you know Paris is going to be ripped up and all that sort of thing. Absolutely not from our end. I think Chris Bowen makes a fair point though, and that is by Labor failing to achieve their 43% target, they will be in breach of the Paris Agreement. So it is on them to seek advice about how to deal with that. As the opposition we’re just being very candid and open and we are saying that Labor will not achieve its target. You know, when we left office, PK, when the coalition left office, we were looking at emissions having been reduced by 29% on 2005 levels. You know what they are today? 29%. At best, Labor has flatlined emissions, and this is not good enough. We are part of the global community. They are failing and it doesn’t matter whether Labor and Greens win the next election or Liberal and National. The day after the next election. The Australian Government is still going to have the problem of a 43% target that’s unachievable.
Patricia Karvelas
Just a correction on the fact – Labor and Greens don’t run in a coalition like you do with the Nationals. I don’t think that’s quite the way it works. But on…
Ted O’Brien
Time will tell on that one.
Patricia Karvelas
Well, that’s a political point we make – that’s a political point you make. Labor does govern in majority.
Ted O’Brien
It is indeed, and coalitions are political arrangements. We put that to Labor last week. We want them to put Greens last – they are refusing to come to the party on that.
Patricia Karvelas
Let me just put this to you. Let me put this to you. I’m trying to politely get in here – do you agree with the vast majority of IPCC scientists that warming won’t be kept below 1.5 degrees, and do you think that should still be the priority?
Ted O’Brien
I absolutely agree with the IPCC’s views on a whole range of things, including that as part of Paris Agreement, we’ve got to try to keep things below any increase of 2%. Ideally, to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees. I also make the point though, PK, that the IPCC talks about the importance of different technologies to get there, which is why we don’t agree on an all-eggs-in-one-basket ‘renewables-only’ approach that Labor is taking. We believe we need a balanced mix of technologies, and that is renewables, that is gas, and that is zero-emissions nuclear energy as coal leaves the system. And the IPCC, which you refer to, they also point to nuclear energy as an important mitigating technology. You can’t get to net zero without it basically.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay, can I just get a brief answer on this. Chris Bowen and the Prime Minister, in fact, say that the next election is will be a referendum on nuclear power. Do you agree with that?
Ted O’Brien
Well, they do love referendums, I give them that. I think the next election really is going to be about the Australian people asking themselves the question, have we been winners under this Labor government or losers?
Patricia Karvelas
So you don’t see it as a referendum on nuclear power?
Ted O’Brien
No, no, this is what I’m saying I believe it will be about. I believe the Australian people will be asking themselves – is the country going in the right direction, or the wrong one? Who will provide the strength of leadership we need for tough times? Is it Peter Dutton or is it Anthony Albanese? The people I talk to, PK, whether it be my portfolio of Energy and Climate Change, or just on the ground in my own electorate – people are hurting right now. We had over 500 families a week since Labor came to office going on hardship arrangements with their energy retailer. They’re on their knees – companies are closing. You know, a tripling of insolvencies in manufacturing. These are the real issues that face people day in and day out. I think that’s what it’s going to be about.
Patricia Karvelas
And your policy… and your policy on climate targets hasn’t changed? You’re saying there’ll be interim targets?
Ted O’Brien
Our policies, of course, are being reformed since the last term of government if that’s what you mean. Which is why we’ve been very open from the get go that we are looking at zero emissions nuclear energy, for example, as part of a balanced mix.
Patricia Karvelas
But there will be interim targets?
Ted O’Brien
When it comes to our targets moving forward, they’ll be based on three things. Firstly, the state of the economy. Secondly, the trajectory of emissions. And thirdly, our policy suite. They’re the three key things and they always have been by the way.
Patricia Karvelas
I’m going to ask one more time. I don’t want to drive people completely mad. But yes or no – there will be interim climate targets.
Ted O’Brien
Of course we will be signing up, in government, to targets.
Patricia Karvelas
Thank you so much for joining us.
Ted O’Brien
Not just net zero. Thanks very much, PK.
Patricia Karvelas
Shadow Minister for Energy and Climate Change, Ted O’Brien. You’re listening to RN breakfast.