TRANSCRIPT
06 November 2023
Chris Kenny
Rolls Royce and the SMRs. Now Shadow Climate Change and Energy Minister, Ted O’Brien, has just returned from the UK touring Rolls Royce’s headquarters, and he explains how they’re marching ahead now with that technology.
Ted O’Brien
It sure is, Chris. It was very interesting meeting with a lot of the industry experts and with government in the UK. They plan to adopt another 24GW of nuclear energy by 2050. So, they have a target that by 2050 they will have 25% of their generation coming from nuclear. And that includes, of course, small modular reactors and so they have their foot on the pedal, in the UK, they’re not mucking around. They know that the only credible pathway to net-zero includes nuclear energy.
Chris Kenny
Yeah, I’ve spoken to Rolls Royce as part of my documentary on ‘Going Nuclear’. They’re going full on for a SMR project. Of course, Westinghouse, Nuscale, a number of companies are doing this, and it’s nonsense to suggest that this technology can’t happen or is only prototype phase because we effectively have small modular reactors powering nuclear submarines and warships around the world. They’ve been doing that for 50 years.
Ted O’Brien
You’re dead right. And few countries know more about that than the UK. And it was fascinating talking to them about the synergies between the civil industry in the UK for nuclear and their nuclear propelled submarines. Ultimately, those two industries are key to each other. Including, by the way when it comes to waste, Chris. And that was something I really wanted to do a deep dive into when I was in the UK.
Their plans to have a central repository for low, medium and high-level waste will see nuclear waste from both the civil plants and the submarines, all at the one facility. And so, the one deep geological repository for spent fuel will assist for both the nuclear waste from submarines as well as civil plants. And I think that’s informative for Australia since we are signed up to AUKUS. Ultimately, the Albanese Government will be needing to advise on where that deep repository is likely to be.
Chris Kenny
Well, we’ve spent decades stuffing up the low-level nuclear waste project in this country and I think it’s inevitable. As you say, we’ll have one repository and it’s going to end up being in the Woomera defence lands in years to come. But we’ll come back to that issue another time. On small modular reactors then, you’re absolutely certain that, within what time frame, within what timeframe will Australia and other countries be able to buy these reactors off the shelf? Is it only 1 or 2 years away?
Ted O’Brien
Well, look, by the end of this decade we should see small modular reactors coming online and by early next decade. So, by the early 2030s, when Australia might be looking at small modular reactors itself, there should be multiple options out there. It’s important from Australia’s point of view, Chris, that we do not adopt first of a kind. We don’t want to be a guinea pig in this regard. Those countries that already have vibrant civil industries are the ones that will go first on small modular reactors and Australia needs to learn. And if we do decide to embark on a nuclear future, then we need to be fast followers.
Chris Kenny
Yeah look, it’s understandable why you would also focus on small modular reactors. As you say, we shouldn’t go first, see what’s available. But we know that they’re smaller, they’re less intimidating, if you like. They can sit into existing locations and plug into the transmission network. But isn’t the case in Australia, if we want long term, reliable, affordable and emissions free energy then we should actually be looking at old the old-fashioned version, fixed nuclear reactors, obviously modern versions of them, but that’s proven technology. And in places like the Hunter or the Latrobe Valley or the Iron Triangle in South Australia, it might be an ideal location for a large fixed nuclear reactor.
Ted O’Brien
Chris, I think there’s two angles you come at this. One is new versus old and then small versus big and so on both of those. Firstly, I think Australia should only look at new nuclear technologies, that is generation three-plus and beyond. No one wants the old stuff, no one wants old Soviet era nuclear technology, not in this country. And then when it comes to size, at the moment, the Coalition is investigating micro reactors, small reactors and large reactors. All three potential classes of reactors are currently under consideration. What’s most important is that it’s got to be the new stuff, not the old, and we’ve got to make sure that it fits our needs. But there’s no doubt if we are to decarbonise grid, our grid and try to get to net-zero, the only credible pathway includes nuclear energy. Not solely by the way, it’s not a silver bullet, but learning from the UK, they are looking at both the small and the large. In order to decarbonise, we’ve got to learn from our allies and close partners who know far more about civil nuclear energy than we do.
Chris Kenny
It is all pretty obvious and inevitable in my view. Thanks for talking to us again with that update, Ted. I appreciate it.
Ted O’Brien
Thanks very much, Chris All the best.