FEDERAL MEMBER FOR FAIRFAX
TRANSCRIPT
TED O’BRIEN – SHADOW MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY
9 December 2023
E&OE…
Journalist
On stage you made a pronouncement about what would happen under a Liberal government, can you just repeat.
Ted O’Brien
So, under a Dutton led Coalition at our first COP in office, we would sign Australia up to that pledge, together with our allies and our friends, recognising the importance of zero-emissions, nuclear energy to get us to net-zero. Australia has a really important role to play in this. And I think we really do need to step up and do the right thing, not just by our own country, but by the planet.
Journalist
Would a Coalition Government also sign a pledge to triple renewable energy?
Ted O’Brien
So, I understand that the current government might be looking at the tripling of renewables and signing a pledge to that end. While I haven’t seen the detail of that pledge, we have no problems with the world embarking on more renewable energy. Indeed, Australia already is a leader in the renewables field, and we’re proud of that. So I wouldn’t be supportive of Australia, tripling its own renewables contribution to the grid. And that is, again, because what we don’t need is all of our eggs in one basket, we need a mix of balanced mix of technologies, and that includes renewables. But we also have to keep an open mind. And that includes other technologies, the days of pitting technologies against each other as a fight has got to be over. Only with technologies being used for their strengths can we have them complemented and work to decarbonize while keeping the lights on and the prices down.
Journalist
We just heard that the UAE managed to go from zero to 25% in 14 years? I imagine if a Coalition government is elected and you’ve got it through it would then be at least surely 14 years before getting any nuclear power, but all the coal is coming out of the system in the next 10 years. So is this a distraction?
Ted O’Brien
Well, there is no doubt that under Labor we are seeing a race to the exit by our baseload power stations, and that is causing a risk. And the more it intervenes into the gas market and stalls investment there, suddenly gas also becomes a problem. Renewable investment is at an all time low now under this Labor government. So, there’s no doubt we are creating problem after problem in Australia because we have an ideologically driven policy suite.
Journalist
Wouldn’t it be too slow to embrace – embark on nuclear in a couple of years’ time?
Ted O’Brien
What the evidence says is that nuclear energy is one of the fastest ways to decarbonize electricity grids. That’s what the evidence says around the world, one of the fastest ways to decarbonize and again, nobody is suggesting that any technology is the silver bullet. Nuclear energy needs to be considered as part of a balanced energy mix. But if we are to be honest, and learn the lessons from overseas, we have to concede that countries have decarbonized their grid at speed with the help of zero-emissions, nuclear energy. The question for Australia is should we to be going down that path?
Journalist
The Australian Energy Market Operator has an integrated system plan, it says we can.. that the optimum future path against 82% renewables by 2030, relative 90% by before 2040. Have you looked at that document? And if so, why don’t you agree with it?
Ted O’Brien
There’s a lot in that question. But yes, I have looked at the ISP in great detail, looking at the methodology that underpins it, the process of planning advice that eventually goes to governments and some of its key inputs, in particular, the Gen-Cost report. And I think there are some issues with all of the things I just mentioned there. I don’t think a doorstop at COP is probably the right place to be going through it. Nevertheless, if your question is, do we agree with Labor’s plan for 82% renewables in the grid by 2030? Well, no, we don’t. And I think they already have been mugged by reality. They came to office promising it would be done. And we even have had the Clean Energy Council saying it’s running at 1/10th of the pace that it should. I mean investment in renewables has stalled under this government. And this is the problem. We need to make sure that we are supporting all technologies. We don’t pit technologies against each other, we recognise that they are complementary, and they need to work together. But I do not support Labor’s 82% target by 2030. It’s unrealistic, they haven’t got Treasury or the Department to model it, still to this day, and the evidence says it’s already failing.
Journalist
(Inaudible) Small modular reactors would be the future for nuclear if Australia had… (inaudible) nuclear and not large-scale reactors. If I heard you correctly today, you said that a future could include large scale reactors, is that right has the position changed?
Ted O’Brien
We’ve been consistent from the get-go here that we are looking at ‘All-of-the-Above’ when it comes to technologies. And then when it comes to nuclear technologies, we’re looking at ‘All-of-the-Above’ for generation three plus and beyond. So that is micro-reactors that is small-reactors that is large-reactors.
Journalist
Are you concerned that NuScale collapsed, owing taxpayers a billion dollars and it’s the most advanced at the moment of small modular reactors?
Ted O’Brien
Well, you mention one SMR company there that lost one customer over the last couple of months, if you look at the province of Ontario, in Canada, they’ve quadrupled their order for their small modular reactor. I mean, if you look at Ontario, here, we have a province that has a grid that generates 1/10th of the emissions that Australia does, its households pay half the price in their bills than Australian households do. Why? They’ve got up to 60% of zero-emissions, nuclear energy on their grid. Again, we’ve got to be humble enough as a nation to learn from other countries. And that’s one of the reasons why we’re at COP. We’re learning these these lessons. And we are applying an evidence-base due diligence, and we’re drawing conclusions being very open about it.
Journalist
Ontario has had nuclear for decades, they’re not using technology that we would consider for Australia though are they?
Ted O’Brien
Well, there’s no doubt that Ontario is looking at introducing small modular reactors. And they are the GE Hitachi BWX 300, which would be considered, along with other potential new technologies. Again, we’re interested in the new and the emerging technologies in Australia, not the old technologies. And certainly Ontario, they have a roadmap together with three other provinces in Canada, as does the United Kingdom, as does the United States. I mean, our allies, and our friends have chosen a path to decarbonize that the Australian government refuses to acknowledge. We are isolated as a nation right now, because we are not adopting an ‘All-of-the-Above’ approach, we are right now as a nation not prepared to embrace a balanced mix of technologies. That’s what the Coalition wants to do. That’s why we’re here at COP to learn the lessons.
Journalist
Will you campaign on nuclear energy in the run up to the next election? And if so you’re worried about any potential (inaudible)?
Ted O’Brien
Well, there is no doubt that once you engage in these conversations, there can be challenges. And that’s difficult. But so dire are the consequences of getting this wrong. We have to make sure we have these conversations as a country. And sure there’ll be people that will come out with all sorts of crazy ideas and running scare campaigns. But you know, hand on heart, we face an enormous challenge here as a country, we need to make sure come 2050 that we’ve not only delivered on net zero, but as a country, we remain strong, we remain free, we remain rich, fiercely independent, and how we manage our energy system will be a large determinant as to whether or not that eventuates. So let’s have the hard conversations and remain transparent and be truthful and be evidence based. Probably Jacquelin..
Journalist
At this COP Minister Bowen has indicated a stronger language in regards to fossil fuel phase down or phase out. I’m interested in your view on all of that?
Ted O’Brien
Well, I haven’t been following what Mr. Bowen has been saying over the last 24 hours, admittedly. But if Labor is going to start talking about a phase out of fossil fuels, I assume their first action will be to restore the $250 odd million dollars they ripped out of the budget for carbon capture and storage. At the end of the day, right now. We do need coal and gas in our system, therefore we need to clean it up and abate it. The more we’re ideological as the government is in putting its head in the sand and pretending it’s not happening is not helpful. That’s why prices are going up. The grid is unreliable. We need to have realism in this debate. And we need to embrace all technologies that will abate fossil fuels. And that’s what we should be doing. I look forward to hearing what the government says.
Journalist
One final question on that panel you were just on, Mr. Buono said that one of the.. his advice to Australia was to be really clear and transparent and say exactly where the first of the nuclear power stations will go. So where would it be?
Ted O’Brien
Well, there’s no doubt one of the big questions people will be asking will be, you know, the why the what the how, and the where. And I look forward when I announced the Coalition policy to have answers to a lot of those questions. But here’s what the experts are telling us. The experts are saying that an obvious place for Australia to consider zero-emissions nuclear reactors would be on retiring coal fired power stations because you’d leverage the existing infrastructure. It could reduce the capital expense according to report to the Department of Energy in the United States by over 30%. Now, whether or not that’s the path Australia takes we’ll continue to do our due diligence, but we’re listening to the experts and placing it in the context of Australia. Thank you.