September 19th 2023
Topics: Nuclear Energy, Hunter Offshore Wind Zone, Consultation Process
E&OE…
Richard King
It’s already coming up to 12 past seven and joining me now is Shadow Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Ted O’Brien – who’s on the line. Good morning, Ted.
Ted O’Brien
Good morning to you, Richard.
Richard King
Firstly, I believe there’s a community meeting on this morning in my area. Can you just give us the details on that?
Ted O’Brien
So we will be having a community townhall meeting starting at 9am, at the Game Fish Club at Shoal Bay.
Richard King
Right. The Game Fishing Club at Shoal Bay. That’s at nine o’clock this morning. And this is re the proposed wind zone off of our coastline here.
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, that’s right, Richard. It’s actually a wind zone that’s been now declared. But as you probably know, there’s still many in the local community, believe it or not, that didn’t even know it was happening. So I’ve been back and forth to the Hunter, a fair bit, as you know, and I’m back now. Because we have another community here that just, all this has been a mystery to and they’re deeply concerned.
Richard King
Well, look, I spoke to Rhys Westbury, who organized a meeting on the weekend. This is a little bit of what he had to say on the program on Friday.
Rhys Westbury
The major concern that has called to action my group has been the lack of prior consultation.
Richard King
That’s been a big criticism, the lack of prior consultation, Ted.
Ted O’Brien
Look, Richard, I think probably when you and I last spoke may have been when I was here in July, and I was at Norah Head and that was their concern about this same offshore wind zone. And, you know, we did have a little bit of a win there, by the way, in terms of they shrunk the zone off the coast there. But at that time, the labor minister Chris Bowen, he had effectively admitted that the consultation process for these projects was flawed, it wasn’t working. And he commissioned a review by the Australian Energy Infrastructure Commissioner and is that people hoping the Hunter because I thought, alrighty, maybe, we have been heard and they’re going to fix this botched consultation process up. But then literally, a week or so later, the Minister declared the zone. So he knew the process was flawed but he just said bugger it, I’m moving ahead. And so I mean, the people, the Hunter, don’t like being taken for granted, they’re clearly not going to cop it and they need to be listened to and so that’s what I’m here to do today.
Richard King
I believe the South Australian Government have knocked a proposed wind farm off the South Australian coast saying basically, no, it’s not going to happen. Is that correct?
Ted O’Brien
Yeah look, they put in a request or let’s say a submission saying they don’t want it off their coast. And Richard, here’s the thing, right? So the Minister comes out and says the process is flawed. And then the next breath says, ‘Oh, by the way, Hunter, you’ve got one. And now I’m gonna open up consultation on others.’ And the one you’re referring to off the coast, South Australia, that’s one of the other ones, again, using the same flawed community engagement process. And they wonder why local communities are unhappy. I mean, this is probably the biggest transformation of Australia’s coastline ever. And you’ve got local residents who are going to be directly impacted, still in the dark about it even happening. That’s just not good enough in anyone’s thoughts and no one should cop that.
Richard King
We’re just on the wind farms. We don’t at this stage have any offshore wind farms in Australia. But they are, as I understand it, pretty common in the northern hemisphere, Ted.
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, look that they are. There are different European countries, in our part of the world, in terms of Asia. You look at countries like or economies like Taiwan. They’re investing big time in offshore wind. A lot of the investment has dried up in the northern hemisphere. And so there are companies out there that are sniffing around. But I don’t think it matters what sort of project we talk about whether it be a wind farm, solar farm, transmission line, you know, coal plant, nuclear reactor, you name it. A prerequisite really should be a community giving their social licence saying, ‘yep, we know about it. We’ve had a view on it. We’ve expressed it, the government’s weighed it up. It’s been a fair process.’ None of that can be said for the process that has gone through here and that’s precisely what I’m learning from the residents of the Hunter.
Richard King
We’ve spoken in the past, you’re a big fan of nuclear power, so is opposition leader, Peter Dutton. Our energy minister, Chris Bowen, who’s also going to be in, in my area today has basically shut down your call to consider nuclear energy, saying it’s going to cost a whopping $387 billion to do so, and said that the recent data shows that nuclear energy will be more expensive than solar or onshore wind power. But you question the figures.
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, Richard, I think he just made them up. Seriously, I think the last time that Chris Bowen released some economic modelling on Australia’s energy system, he was predicting a $275 reduction in household power bills. And we know what happened after that- they’ve been soaring ever since. So look he’s just trying to do some dodgy political games to kill off the cleanest industrial scale form of energy generation the world’s ever seen in zero-emissions, nuclear energy before the debate even starts. So good luck trying to get to net-zero, mate, without nuclear energy. That was the whole point, right?
Richard King
I mean, everybody talks about these small modular reactors, but do they actually exist? And are there any any operating anywhere in the world that are connected to a grid?
Ted O’Brien
Yeah. They exist in Russia and China ..
Richard King
How many though, in Russia and China, as I understand it, there is one in Russia and one in China?
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, no, well, there’s more than that in China but I can’t give you a specific number. They haven’t released it. I do know that they’ve certainly got one commercialized. You’re testing my memory, I think it’s called Li Long E is the name of it, or Ling Long E, by memory. But you’ve also got them in Ontario in Canada, you know, they’ve got nearly 60% nuclear, they’re embarking on a small modular reactor roadmap. So by the end of this decade, they’ll have small modular reactors on their grid. I’ve been to the site, I’ve seen it myself. I’ve been to the company GE Hatachi. This is, this is not, you know, they’re smaller versions of existing technology. So it’s not sort of the stuff that being dreamt up. It’s technology that’s worked for decades, actually, technology that used to be small, they made them big and now they’re making them small again. And so there’s countries all around the world, buying into this, and bank their future on it. And we just need to have it on the table.
Richard King
Look, I know when there was a bit of a discussion about this earlier this year that the so-called experts were saying, well, look, let’s wait until they perfect them overseas, get it right, and then maybe consider it. Do you think that’s a fair comment?
Ted O’Brien
Richard, I don’t. I mean, it’s not like you don’t just sit around waiting and these SMRs work beautifully, and you click your fingers and get into it. We need to have every option on the table in Australia. And that includes renewables, by the way, I’m not anti-renewables, I just believe in community consultation and community buying into it. But for nuclear energy, it does take time to establish the right regulatory framework to make sure that you are engaging with the private sector. We need the supply chain that do this well, globally, in Australia, specking things out. They’re the ones who really can do the heavy lifting on this. But if we keep this daft legal ban, this moratorium against nuclear energy in Australia, that’ll never happen. This time, it’ll still be saying, Oh, well, maybe we should wait a little bit longer. Just lift the ban and just have a look at it.
Richard King
Okay. In your opinion, if the ban was lifted, do you think there would be interest from from private enterprise to start looking into it and developing a nuclear power generation industry in Australia?
Ted O’Brien
100% Richard, I’ve spoken to them. I’ve visited them. You know, I’ve visited New Scale. I’ve visited X Energy, GE Hitachi, Westinghouse CANDU reactors. I’ve visited a whole bunch of these guys and more. And they see Australia as an ideal location. And that’s simply because we’re a strong liberal democracy. We have an electricity grid that really matches especially the small modular reactors. And there’s a ban on it. So any company is going to say, ‘Well, why would I go and invest the time and effort going over the country down there in the southern hemisphere when the government says this technology is illegal?’
Richard King
Good to talk to you again, Ted, thank you very much for your time. Just a little bit of confusion. You said the meeting started at nine o’clock this morning. At Shoal Bay Fishing Club. I think we’ve been reporting in our news 10 o’clock- is it definitely nine or is it 10? Do you know? It’s definitely nine o’clock this morning. And this is re the proposed wind zone off the Newcastle Port Stephens Hunter Valley coastline. Correct. All right. I know you’re a Broncos fan- hoping for a victory over the Warriors on Saturday night?
Ted O’Brien
Yeah, I really am mate and hopefully we’ve got Newcastle behind us given the last game.
Richard King All right, thanks for your time. Have a good day. Ted O’Brien, the Shadow Climate Change and Energy minister.